The Internet as a part of the Path

The second lecture-discussion by Klein.

In the shop "The Path to Yourself" (Moscow) in May 2001

The Internet is a very interesting, peculiar medium, created during several last years, where people's communication runs in very pure form. What do I mean, when I say "pure form"? When people meet each other in everyday life, they meet not only as awarenesses - they meet as bodies, they meet as some elements of the form, they judge each other from the point of view of clothes fasionness, its reachness, colour, smell, size, weight, social status, and so on, and so on. And this stuff right away determines their communication. And this communication always (in most of cases) remains functional.

What is functional communication? Two robots came to each other, waved flags, shown signs: there is honey, it is 20 meters north-west to it (as bees fly), and that is all - he flies to eat. Or something like that. In other words, they exchange information, and their humanity mostly arises when they expirience some feelings to each other in this process of informtion exchange. For example, feeling of displeasure, feeling of irritation - at least, some human stuff.

Nevertheless, this possibility (for one awareness to interact with other one) has, to my mind, at least two very important concequences.

First, these men do not begin to wave flags, exchanging, in general, insignificant information, but they begin such contact, such dialog, which is sufficiently human and helps them in their development. It assists in rising, working-out some new ideas, some understanding, in other words, it helps their internal growth, internal work. And the second, that is very important in this process. I forgot the second. Well, I will recall.
This first thing is quite enough. May be it is worth to pay attention to the fact that the speed is very high. What do I mean? - Humans, who met each other (if they are not a boy and a girl of quite young age, when the process of familiarity runs fast)... this humans meet, come closer to each other, exchange something - very slowly. In the Internet, in this movable, fast medium this runs almost instantly.

One time they got in touch, second time, third time, and some discussions appear, long-term contacts appear, people even fall in love. There is even the problem in the Internet: people begin stormy relations, they can't help enjoying communication, chatting, but then when they meet each other in real life they look at each other, think about some ways of behaviour, appearance, and also simply feel embarrassed, when they talk with each other in real world. And some disappointment appears... And even those contact, which seemed to be established, fails sometimes. In other words, the Internet is such a peculiar medium; it seems that it was specialy created by the God to accelerate processes of exchange of real information.

It is not waving flags, polite talk of fellow travellers in carriage or of those ones who came across with each other in the street. Friends have some places where they meet... But the Internet is the place where humans, who do not know each other, meet. It is so special, that one can do only this there, if you do something different there, then knowbody, in general, is interested in you, and therefore your process (when you try to get in contact with someone) is ceased. And one interesting feature results from this.
The question is that in real life a lot of reasons force us to keep up these or those contacts, to conduct these or those conversations, to do these or those businesses. And as a result - to enter these or those organizationally-social forms. In other words, for example, if a man goes to work and he likes or dislikes his work, likes or dislikes another man or some collective, where he spends his time, but he can't change the situation so simply as in virtual medium. In virtual medium he presses a button and goes away from this forum, from contact with this man, from correspondence.

Very important thing is that the only one opportunity of co-existence of any human groups is mutual interest. It can be expressed either in some professional theme, or in some human one. And, taking into account that in this virtual medium there is no special frames and borders, which exist in real life (such as contract, possibility to take one's hand or to force the man to interaction using some other way), so, willy-nilly, it becomes that the Internet-space creates also new organizational forms, in which humans begin (one can say so) some new, may be still initial "proto-", but nevertheless, new social organizational forms. Well, that was about the Internet as such new special medium.

And here, in near connetion with the fineness of these forms and with keeping of this mobility, is situated such theme as colossal amount of the information. For the first time a man gets access to the information, which, firstly, has colossal volume, and, secondly, (that is very important too) is free. And to find some self-orienation (if we are speaking now about some spiritual searches, but not about professional ones, about some attempts of self-cultivation) here he, most likely, needs some special approach for processing and assimilating this information.
This way I'm slowly approaching to the second subject of our lecture, which is very important for me also.This theme is called Second logic. I told at the previous lecture, that there is the School of the Second logic. I was asked also, whether there is a way to enter the School, how to enter and so on, and so on. I am reminding you what was at previous lecture. And I would like at our discussions, meetings, lectures to pay considerable attention to the Second logic. As to the most adequate way of thinking in this (The Internet) space, as to the most adequate way of processing this giant quantity of information, and, also, as to the way to keeping these fine nascent comunities. What do I mean by "keeping"?

In fact, when there is no external borders, when there is no external pressures, which force humans to be together, and when these humans are sufficiently educated, sufficiently self-dependent, sufficiently advanced, the problem appears, that they begin to run away in different directions. Once I formulated this problem, using well-known proverb: "Eagles don't fly in flock". This problem exists.

And that is why I would like at our meetings, lectures to speak more and to get from you more questions about exactly this theme, the Second logic, as a technology of thinking, which is adequate to this complicated space. I would like to answer more the questions concerning enlightenment, may be, concerning some concrete your questions-problems, and to tell less about the Internet and why it is good. Although, naturally, if your questions are connected with the Internet, I will answer them also.

And I have a favour to ask you, too. The fact is that, this theme is very novel and as the Internet itself, it is very movable. Therefore, returning to the very begining of our today talk, to write theses for presenting then a lecture is useless. It is useless, because everything what can be told about the Internet is, somehow, in the Internet itself or in the magazines about the Internet, including sufficiently deep investigations. It is also useless, because I would like our lectures, our discussions not to be my "tale about...", (probably, the first introdactory lecture is enough for it) but would be already some concrete work, some interactive lecture, transforming sometimes, maybe, to light forms of a training. We would go away from the situation, when I am telling only about "something", it would be better if the duscussion is about very urgent questions and if further it is transformed into some cooperative work, where, not only me, but the present ones also take active part in our communication.

So, in the begining it is possible in a form of "questions-answers", and then, maybe, we will create some other forms, when some quantity of people who are present here, may be, will move, and, may be, will make something themselves. In other words, I would like to make it in such a way, as it is in the Internet - in very interactive regime. Well. It was the first part.
If someone has questions - please, ask them right now. You will help me this way, marking actual themes.

Question: You haven't even said clearly, what to talk about?...

Klein: I'll answer now. Any more questions?

Question: So you are talking about the communication in the Internet. Verbal [wordy] communication between people takes some minimal part. In the Internet there is only this verbal communication, and it is incomplete. It seems to me, that we shouldn't overestimate all this, go somewhere further than, say that the Internet is... "depository of unstructured information". What communication there can we speak about?... I. e., using words one can transmit only some minimal... [sence]

Klein: Ok. I will answer in order. What was your question about? What is, properly speaking, the talk about? The fact is that our today meeting is a continuation of another meeting. Have you been at the first meeting?

Answer: No, I have not been.

Klein: This is a continuation of our first meeting. And at that time, I told about what one group makes in the Internet. I tried somehow to show different aspects of its activity, and I answered also the direct question, the theme of our lecture: "The Internet as a part of the Path". And I told also what new stuff Internet brings into the life of a wonderer, of ones seeking an understanding, an advancement.

Question: Excuse me for interrupting you, I just don't know what is the lecture about? I asked... And is this your magazine? [Paper magazine ZenRu is meant]

Klein: Yes.

Question: It is written "Zen" there. I thought your theme is about Zen, or about what? Why do you talk about the Internet? Have you organized a school, technical school, or what else? How is it connected with the Internet? What do you deal with?!

Klein: Ok. Three questions are in one: Zen, the Internet, and what we deal with. And I will add the fourth question: what do I want from all that.

So, Zen. At more early stage, in more early time it was Ch'an in China. It is some sufficiently perfect technology of thinking, the technology of vision, the technology to put in a right order one's internal qualities and their development, which has been created about a thousand years ago. At that time it played such a role, that people, who mastered it, became more strong than, so to say, "common people ". And now these technologies, at the modern stage of civilization development, become, may be, already, (and if now they aren't yet, then after several years they will be - indeed!) essential for surviving of every man in the society, may be, of the humankind as a whole. At least, the talk is about those people, who, because of some reasons (I don't know, whether it is because of historical or karmical ones, or they made an effort themselves) have come to the point, that they are not interested simply, for example, to produce a bread and shows or to consume a bread and shows. In other words, They are already not interested in "producing for consumption", they want something more. And to hold on in this complicated world, not to be pressed into the situation where they "consume a bread and shows" and "produce a bread and shows", and as a result all this mass of people is besoted and their qualities go down, so - if they do not want be a part of this mass, a part of those, who act on the mass this way, they need to master another technologies of thinking. To survive, saving their integrity, their fire, small light, this luminescence, developing it in this world. This becomes necessary. It was the first.

Second. How is it connected with the Internet? The fact is that that group of several people, which I told about (and, in more broad sence, it is of several tens of people), its some considerable part, aspect is situated in the Internet, and it is not accidental. The fact is that, if there was no Internet, then people in this group would not find each other, and the group would not gather, because it consists of one person in this city, of other two people in that city, of one person in some city in Ukraine, and so on. The presence of Internet itself allows, in this modern stage, those humans, who maybe would not meet each other in the real life, to create, being united together, some flowers-masterpieces.

You could say: "Well, it is not important. If they would not meet each other, other ones would meet.". But the fact is in the following. The Internet, at the same time, allows this way to establish a level of communication, a level of contact, so it is possible to make some... (I am, probably, speaking obscure way again, however, I will finish this idea) ...some "screening" of people. What is it? The fact is that modern life forces 99% (may be 95%, 89%, I don't know, but much enough) of population to care only about one thing: to procure a resource for surviving. To put it more precisely, it doesn't allow them to concern with any other things, than to procure a resource for their surviving.

May be, it is too bold statement, but nevertheless, I am trying to explain. When a man hunts for mammothes, he has the only one need: to eat, to warm himself near fire. Today life is more complicated and more diverse, however, human's functions, even in today's level of civilization development, come to the problem of procuring a resource for surviving. Those ones who do more than procuring the resource, they make a very thin layer in this world. And this great part of humans is arranged as follows: these ones procure a resource well, these ones procure a resource not so well, these ones procure a resource badly, these ones study to procure a resource, these ones fail to procure a resource. Anyway, all it turns around exactly this question. But those ones, which have internal power, based on right thinking, on spirit power, on enlightenment, allowing them to do some more stuff (to make it clear - for the welfare of other humans), so, this layer is very, very thin.

That is why, when I say, that the Internet is important, besause it allows to gather some quantity of humans, "to screen", I mean exactly this. To find those ones who have ripened, or who wants, or who is on the threshold, or who began to make something himself already, having passed internal stage... When the time, when procuring a resource took alone 100% of his power, and 100% of his time, has passed already. Successful or insuccessful procuring a resource. And an opportunity to catch these humans, some quantity of these humans, exists, and the internet-medium allows to do it.

Question: Is it bad, in general, "to work and to eat"? Does one need to do something else?

Klein: There is no such question. I'll explain now. There is no such question, that "to work and to eat" is bad. Why there is no such question? Because everybody knew it long time ago already. But the question is the following: today even "to devote yourself to searches of spirit" is late already. Twenty years ago, not to mention one hundred years ago, it was urgent "to devote yourself to a spirit searches", it was a top, a limit. But today even this task is late, because today urgent task is "to convert understanding to action". All conditions to form this understanding has been created. Moreover, it is just the first layer, the first layer of understanding. What is it characterized by? Take a man, who understands nothing, but he also knows nothing yet, he heared about something, he begins to deal with some books, and with some other stuff also... Gradually his store of knowledge is accumulated, it seems to him already, that he understands. Why? Because some integral picture is formed already in his mind. He becomes more or less erudite, he begins to look into such questions... And this is the first stage.

And the second stage of understanding, of real understanding, begins only when he, on a basis of this understanding, begins to act, begins to bring something in the world. Then he sees, that these his constructions were speculative, that in addition to understanding, it turns out that, one needs courage, patience, and this, this, this... Then he sees, that it turns out that behind those stuff which he understood, there is the second bottom, then the third, then the fourth... And at that time, real understanding arises, not "knowing about...", not knowing the history of the question, not some abstract knowledge, but really understanding, transforming and having been transformed to an action.

One young man recently wrote me a letter. He asked a question, which sounded like that: "I understand everything, but I am neither warm nor cold from it". Answering him I came to sufficiently precise formula, I answered him with one line, I wrote him the following: "Understanding is necessary only for action". Stop. For nothing else." And now exactly this is actual problem. But any thoughts like "only bad stuff exists", "psychological complexes need to be corrected", "one needs to live somehow humanly" - all it has been passed through. The one who has not assimilated it, he is already late. The train has gone away, and the train goes with increasing speed, and after three, after five years... Well, during last ten-twelve (not to mention twenty) years, colossal changes happened, and continue to happen with acceleration. And many ones are not in time already. And a man, who is really "on the path of spiritual search" (I use stock phrase, because I have no appropriate word, I mean a man, who actually fosters his spirit, somehow pays attention to it, cares about it), he needs today to show outstanding qualities of management. What do I mean? If five hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, one hundred years ago he could join some more or less big group of people (church, cult, religion and so on), accounting for that level of development of civilization, that level of education, that average level of culture, of understanding, of views of humans on the world, then today, if modern young man or not very young man tries to save himself on this path, then he can not join some cults, all these frames are cramped for him. And to go not in a group, especially in a big one, sanctified one by all power of society and state, but to try to go that path alone, and not to be crushed, addled by life, and by those groups, - he has to develop outstanding abilities of manager, outstanding administrative abilities, outstanding abilities to make self-dependent decisions, some qualities, from adroitness to partience and speed for holding out in this state. If he failed to hold out, then he goes there.Lucky ones fell into more soft and organized, and civilized structure, for example, christian church. Unlucky ones fell into some totalitarian sect.

And those people, who are able to be such managers, who have wish to save their path, have wish to go to the end and to use all accumulated knowledge exactly as a material for their own analysis, work, and their own conclusions, - so we are the part of this squadron of humans. And, from one point of view, we aim to produce something in this theme, and, from the other pouint of view, to support others, and from the third point of view, I understand that these are the technologies, which will be very needfull in nearest future. It was about the Internet.

That is why, what do we deal with now? If one says formally, if I try to formalize the stuff we deal with, it is the website in the Internet (not one already, but several), it is making a paper magazine, it is making an electronic newsletter, it is performing and organizing actions, and it is lecturing. In near future, I think, in a month, we will conduct two-days seminars (from friday evening to sunday evening), free seminars, with more close communication, in more intimate circle, where some questions will be worked out. And we do something more... About ten items. Did I forget something?

Lotos: And other good works.

Klein: Yes. And other good works. Why did I forget about them? Because it is the FORM of our activity, it is a way of our realization And those basic ones, the essence of what this group do is: it grows its internal light. Both every man from this group, and the group as a whole. And just yesterday we had a talk, and I said the following idea. There was a question in conversation: "So what to do - live for yourself or for other people?" And my answer was like that: the most thing, which can be done for other people, is to grow your internal light, to raise a quality of that light, which is inside. Because all other works, actions, thoughts, behaviours, and results, respectively, are derivatives from it. If there is a lamp, then there is a light, there is luminance. If the lamp is crooked, wry, then, any efforts you make, the results, which you will distribute, will be kind of wry. And in today's world, you can plan one-two-three steps forward, one-two-five, - and it will bring you, at some eighteen step, to bad, not good result. That is why, you should not care much about these concrete things, as you should care about it. And if you care about it, then, willy-nilly, everithing you do, think, how you move, all this will bring you to these results. It is such a scheme.
We make several projects both in the Internet and outside of it, and during all this stuff we deal with raising of our own luminance.

Question: Do you plug yourself in socket, or what?

Klein: No.

Question: Then how does the luminance run?

Klein: What is luminance? What do I mean saying luminance? I said already, that spiritual searches, in addition to that, it is important and it remains urgent problem for a big quantity of people, and for some layer, in which, because of some reason, searches is a past stage. I said, that one of the most urgent problem now is to transform understanding to action. When you transform your understanding to action, what begins? As you begin to act, the medium, in which you act, begins to resist, to withstand. At least, in the form, that to reach some goal you need to pump in some quantity of energy, to go through some quantity of barriers, to overcome some quantity of problems. To build up from the elements of this world something, what you have in your head or here inside (and you often need to combine incompatible things), when you fight with all it, when you transform understanding to action, and your action is not connected with the aim to tear away, to bite off, beat down, to cheat and so on, so, wheh you try to build up all it, then your qualities, your understanding (I said - the first layer, the second layer), - they have to increase necessarily. If they do not increase, if you do not solve those, those, those problems, then you are slaped down, you are rolled down to low level.

When we see all this, do some concrete our works, projects, we do not think that our internal task is to establish some two-years projects, three-years projects, five-years projects, to do something to push down or fight with someone, we even do not have an object to change someone. In other words, everything what one can do now, is to change himself in the process of this activity. This thing, which we do, I call - raising of our own luminance. Do you understand?

Question: In general, you change yourself, but not others. And you begin to illuminate, because you are changed.

Klein: One could say so.

Question: Then how do you change yourself? Do you convince yourself, analyze, understand, or does someone stand on his head, or meditate, or something else?... Everybody makes it in different ways. So, how do you?

Klein: Which way do we change ourselves? Which way do we develop ourselves? ...It is a very important question, actually. Every day, when a group of four people leads twelve directions, plus, everyone is alive man having his own life, and some questions outside, and so on, and some quantity of questions, problems, which need to be solved, revealing his qualitites. And, taking into account, that all these projects are not directed to earn money, one should somehow subtly to hold these balances.

Answering the question, how we do it, - meditating, or reading mantras, or something else, I can say, that the basic thing, how we do it - is having the intention to move forward and some conception about the history of these methods-technologies, of ways, history of all this moving forward, and working out our own ways and technologies of moving, so, in addition to all this, the basic condition is to be not in a monastery, on a mountain, but in the centre of the life. If a man today is not in centre of life, if he does not work with this aspect of his communication with the world... Let us assume, that for young man it is important to be able to earn money, to communicate with girls, etc. I mentioned the most actual, the most vital problems. And if during all his actions, he is not turning away from the path of direct awareness, if he is not lying, not cheating, and so on, but conversely, at the same time, he is developing his awareness, bringing up for himself, in his head, some difficult actual questions, and he is solving them, so if he is keeping this balance, when here he is in material world, but here he is in the world of spirits - we believe that right moving forward is possible only this way.

Question: The question asked is: which way do you reach, what do you practice, what do you do, but you answer in what place you do it. In other words... Is it your practice?

Klein: Exactly. It is concrete works, concrete actions, different forms of debriefings to sufficiently deep level. Yes, exactly this way.

Question: What is the final purpose of your activity?

Klein: The fact is the following. In the begining I will answer by the highest standarts. We are situated, at least, me, somewhere, somehow in the tradition, called Ch'an. This question is clear there, and basic ideas are also: an enlightenment, Bodhisattva, dharma, and so on. The fact is that an enlightenment, it is not an applied thing, it is not something smaller than, for example, earning money. Earning money is here [he shows], and enlightenment is here [he shows], and it is impossible to seek enlightenment or to get enlightenment to steal neighbour's cow better after that. In other words, an enlightenment is self-valueble. It is sufficiently complicated idea for european mind, because it was grown up in a functional civilization and mode of life, where everything should be for "something". I just noticed, that so huge achievement, object, phenomenon as Enlightenment is the greatest, all other stuff is smaller. And it is not right to prop up that by it. In other words it has self-value. Once again. It is exactly this way for me for some time. But for more young men, who just begin to enter the theme, one can say absolutely clear, honestly, that increasing of clearness and of awareness, of his personal qualities will naturally help him. Today it is on tis level, after a month it is better, after a year it is better some more, it will help him to solve personal problems, internal problems, external problems. Any culturization, cultivation of awareness, from the word "culturization" - to pollard (here is a tree and it was pollarded, I use this word in this meaning), any structurization, cultivation of mind, - it, undoubtedly, changes human awareness into more perfect instrument, more powerful weapon. That is axiomatic.

Everything what people do in the world, it comes to a fight, to an opposition of minds. What a man is, is defined by his life. His awarenes defines his friends, plans, wives, children, relations.

Question: The highest stage of enlightenment is absence of any other stuff, isn't it?

Klein: No. There are a lot of these steps, and you should not think about the highest stages. Because... How does enlightenment differ from mathematics, for example? In other words, in the process of study of mathematics there are, let us assume, ten courses of mathematics, but human's awareness is not changed. Niether his motivations, nor his basic schemes (which he uses to process an information to communicate with the world), nor his world outlook are changed. In other words, no changes appear. But when a man comes through the steps of the enlightenment, of the advancement of his awareness, the awareness changes itself, everything changes: motivations, reasons, wishes. That is why to talk now about "what is there after 100 steps" - is not right. Correctly, constructively, especially constructively, if there is a real wish to go somethere, is to see two steps clearly enough. One needs to see ahead always, because if you see one step, then the end is not fixed, but when you see two ones, then the begining and the end of the first step are fixed neatly. It is enough to see two steps ahead and the direction. And if you will see it in every part of the path, then you will reach. But if you are standing, are looking there, are not going to come, if you say "There are that, that, that", then you will not come upon there. I began from the highest level, that there is nothing there, one should not prop up small stuff by great stuff. The fact is that here, at this stage, while you are begining to understand something, it is enough here to have motivations in the form of improvement of positive results when coming along your own life trajectory. In other words, actually, those problems, which could be, would not form something unclear. They can be solved very quickly. And in addition to it, when this thing is solved, if you solve it separately, then you solve it, solve, solve... But when you are moving this way, then you are solving this thing, this, this, this - everything goes. What a man is, the life is the same. What a level of advancement of his awareness, the same thing is aroung him.

Question:Tell about techniques.

Klein: All techniques are rubbish. It is a trash, rubbish. Anybody, who attaches himself to a technique, will never come anythere. He will infinitely, all his long life, investigate curls on the body of zen, locks on Osho's carpet and so on. Everything, what are techniques, are copies. When Hui-Neng or Lin-Chi or Osho creates something, he does not make it this way: "Wow! I will take this technique, and use it!" No. He is advanced so much, he illuminates so much, that any his action is masterpiece. Take and write down! Well, this is a technique! Take, learn by heart, record - it is a technique too. And here comes a list of 200 techniques. And followers (Wow! It is valuable, it is important!) begin to study. It is useless! There is million, seventy millions, in fact, infinite quantity. A study of one, two, three, four, ten aspects will be false.

While a person does not understand the importance of raising internal light, untill he is interested only in form, in techniques, he will come nowhere. It's quite another matter, if he is interested in the essence, in the core of raising of all it, because he is physical alive being, which appears in a form of body, in a form of concrete actions. It's quite another matter, that this his aspiration, intention - will appear in form of some concrete actions. It can be techniques and it can be not techniques, hovewer, only when there is a basis. If there is no basis, then study techniques, walk with this rubbish, you will come to nowhere.
It was related to techniques.

Now I will tell about what we have. We have no any special techniques. Conditionally, the Second logic, which I told about, can be called a technique. It can be called "basic technique". Why am I saying technique in inverted commas? Because it is internal technique. It is not internal in sence that it is inside circle, no, but because it is technique of thinking, technique of awareness raising, and of its mental part, first of all.

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