Klein

About AIDS, messiahnism and "what's to be done?"

Here is a cell. So far as this cell, this organism, this albuminous biorobot (in this sense - mechanism) is developing, it begins to adapt to its surroundings more and more. In what way? It starts to expand the identification space of his enemy, to prolong the identification time of an enemy, needed for self-defense. That means it has acquired a sense of touch. You can now notice your enemy when he touches you and TRIES to penetrate you, rather when he is already IN. What is the sense of touch? It is developing. A fish has lines on its sides, that register oscillations of the water, oscillations of the surrounding environment. These lines represent a more developed sense of touch, that allows you more... - like he hasn't touched you yet, there are just some oscillations of water, but you feel that something is approaching you, that something is coming from this direction. The identification space expands farther. In the next stage you acquire the sense of hearing. What, then, is the sense of hearing? This is when the same oscillations of the surroundings (water or air) you can hear from a greater distance, you can register everything more precisely, you can distinguish that there is this, that and that. If something is shaking there, you know: there is SOMETHING there. And using your sense of hearing you can distinguish this sound, that sound or other. In one case you run away, in another - you will hide, in the third - will not move at all, or do something else - you can distinguish more accurately. You are capable of controlling the world, the surroundings, better. Then the sense of sight appears. The sense of sight - it's already like an ability to perceive electromagnetic oscillations. If sense of hearing allows you hear something that is as far as a kilometre away, the sense of sight gives you the ability perceive objects as far as 15 kilometres away, or in case of the stars, like thousands of light-years.

Question:
To perceive electromagnetic oscillations?

Klein:
Light is an electromagnetic oscillation, and the eye is a device for receiving electromagnetic oscillations. The same as the ear is a device for receiving mechanical oscillations of the enviroment. A membrane, which responds, trembles. Between the sense of hearing, as an extention of the sense of touch, and the sense of sight there are other sense -organs, such as one responsible for the sense of smell, the transfer of the parts of molecules of smells, odours. The sense of smell is born out of sense of taste. You can lick something and feel the taste. The sense of taste is a more developed tactile zone. Tactility develops, in one way into hearing, in another - to the taste and smell. How does the sense of sight develop? Heat receptors, infrared receptors appear. Like snakes, which have these holes and they can... Why can they hunt in the night? Because they can distinguish. With their infrared locator. It can not distinguish between all of the visible electromagnetic waves of the spectrum, but perceives red waves, more exactly, lower than red. Infrared waves are also electromagnetic. Taking a part of the spectrum from violet to red, then below red there are shorter waves, these are infrared electromagnetic waves, this is heat radiation. So, they see something, they actually do see, but not clear pictures, but enough, for example, for hunting. And what are these infrared waves, what is the ability to perceive these infrared waves? This is like when you touch something with your fingers, measuring the temperature of your body, for example: warm-cold. With greater sensitivity and you can perceive that from as far as 2-3 metres: this is colder, that is warmer. Another increase in sensitivity, - and you can feel as far as 10 metres. These receptors, naturally, only work on short distances. And what is sense of touch, when you feel something with your fingers? It is again an extention of the sense of touch. So, the sense of touch in one way gives birth to the sense of hearing, in another - to the sense of smell through the sense of taste, and in the third - the ability to distinguish differences in temperature, in the spectrum of electromagnetic oscillations (sense of sight). That's it, the whole set of five senses.

Question:
So, is it an additional sense-organ or the work of the same organ?

Klein:
Where lies the boundary? We can consider each one as additional, refined. But we treat it as a separate one.

Question:
Surely it's not the sense of touch or the sense of sight, right?

Klein:
Right. But we can put it in line with other senses, in the sense that all of them are used to detect and escape danger, increasing your ability to control your enviroment. And if you consider everything according to this scale, then intuition is right there after intellect. The thing is, however, that no matter what I say now, it's only a scheme, a rough scheme, and in principle intuition can be built just out of far-feeling sense of touch but that doesn't matter now, it's juat a detail. What is important, is that all of them are in there. And if we say that we... plus we say that we do distinguish intuition from intellect... But in reality there is consciousness. The next step - is consciousness, that posesses intellect, freedom of will, that means that one's not a biorobot, but a creature possessing freedom of will, turning into an angel, a God-like creature. Then he posesses intellect, developed intuition, and a bunch of other things, does not matter which exactly.

So, let's have a look at AIDS. The thing is that all these qualities, all the sense-organs, all these systems, including intellect and intuition, make one system. A system, that developes in the direction of more powerful instruments. More powerful considering the level of influence, the quality of the results, the distance of influence. So, for instance, a person gets 95% of information using sight. So, the sense of sight is a much more powerful instrument than all other senses. But, a creature with intellect, consciousness, intuition will be human even without sense of sight. Another thing is that here we should speak about like the presence of will, etc... So, every step here is creation of a more powerful instrument allowing a better control of the enviroment, a better instrument of danger detection. The thing is that when I say "intuition" - I mean intuition, but perception without senses - like when you see with your eyes closed, or more precisly, without using your eyes. It is knowledge acquisition without any intellectual effort.

Question:
Which organ helps us to perceive this world?

Klein:
I don't know which organ helps us to do that. The thing is, take the first layer, ok? These are physical organs: an eye, this ear. But where the realization, intellect and intuition starts, there aren't any organs there. We can speak about brain, well, we can speak about it, but it's not constructive. I'm not suggesting that we should study biomechanichs, like which part of brain is responsible for the intellect, which for the memory, how it's all connected - no, that's not the point. The thing is, that in the first case we speak about real physical detectors that become more and more refined and which send impulses to the analysing center, that takes decisions. In the second case we speak about the fact that this analyser becomes 10, 100, 1000 times more powerful, and starts to work on a principally new level. And then we say that, when this analyser's power is increased by the order of 3 , it needs neither eyes nor ears... How does it work? Hell knows! Probably, there exists some global information field, choose any theory you like. Probably, it's tuned in to God's channel, or past, present and future co-exist, and we should just learn how to move around - hell knows! Back to my point.

When I was speaking about the intuition, I mean as well such phenomena as telepathy, telekinesis, clairvoyance, seeing with your eyes shut, etc, etc, etc. There is one thing more powerful than the rest of them, when you don't even need any of these voyances... It's when you just KNOW, but not intellectually; you just position yourself in the enviroment in such a way, so that, like Don Juan, you can say: "but I will never appear where the hunter will be". But this is a very high level...

So, anyway, let's return to AIDS. The thing is that - (here I will state the conclusion first , which we can later discuss, if necessary) - if you have a wrong consciousness, it starts getting out of order, to suffer under stress. And why? Because the system itself is very complicated (I mean the environment), but your model is only a rough approximation. When it's constantly under stress, all the levels below are surpessed. Including- and may be even in the first place - the immune system. The immune system and central nervous system - are the same kind of maps. In other words, to cure AIDS - what's more, such cases are known, when a person had AIDS and then AIDS had just disappeared, and it always happened when a person was physically active, like a sportsman, when he did not loose his spirits...- So to cure AIDS we need to change our consciousness. Well-known are cases of people who worry, have infarction and die,and those who have hypertension, or stomach ulcer. Indians, for instance, and all the eastern cultures, they just burst out laughing when they hear about stomach ulcer, considering it an exclusively european desease, the cause of which lies in the wrong consciousness. So, everybody knows: it's his heart, he's worried too much, so the state of consciousness gives us purely material results. Worried too much - material result: death (the heart's stopped beating). Worried too much - result: higher blood pressure. Here's the connection, it really does exist. And the higher the speeds are, the tougher the environment is, the more complicated environment is, the stronger is this effect (it's quite simple - like with the heart disease and the blood pressure...). From where has appeared this endless list, beginnig with cancer and ending with allergy, which spreads in such a way that more and more people are afflicted by different kinds of allergies, where the variety of allergies grows in just about exponential order. So, if earlier people could be allergic to that, that and that ( only a hundred years ago), then the number of allergens increased to 30, then to 300, and now we have a list of 3000, or probably 300000 different allergens. These are all things of the same kind: hypertension, heart deseases, canser, allergy and, as a global counterpart, comprising everything, AIDS. That's why the correct conduct inside, the correct way of developing the consciousness, can (of course, not in the early stages of human consciousness development, but in the further, much futher ones!) solve this problem. At the beginning of our conversation I mentioned the fact that humanity will come across a huge number of problems, and AIDS is just one of them.This problem will become reality, and an ugly one for that, just in a few years. However, the point is that the number of problems, not only AIDS alone, will be numbered by tens, and stress factor will grow.

About HIV virus. The thing is, that everyone of us is a home for a lot of viruses, bacteria, microbes. But as far as your immune system is strong, as far as your phisical organism is healthy and whole, this balance won't be disturbed, this dynamic balance won't be disturbed. They put pressure on you, you push them out, they put pressure on you, you push them out. But if you get weak, energetically, physically, etc, than this balance changes, and when the balanse changes , there appears a reverse positive feedback - the farther the stronger. For instance, there are trees growing, the snow falls, one of the trees has bent down When it stands erect, the snow falls on its branches, not on the trunk. And if tree is bent, then the snow falls on the trunk, more and more, on the brunches, it is convenient for the accumulation of snow, the tree bends down more and more, it becomes more and more convenient for the snow to lie on it - ... CRASH! Reverse positive feedback. Viruses are accumulating, pressuring you - the more the stronger. And that's all! Any stress - just pay attention to the following - you have the right consciousness, you have no stresses, you're in a good mood, smiling. There is a Russian saying that 5 minutes of laughter are equal to a kilogramm of sour cream etc etc.. So, a person is all stressed, just pay attention, he gets old earlier. What does that mean "gets old earlier"? The organism is weared out. What does that mean "organism is weared out "? The balance changes faster, the pressure of the enviroment, microbes and all this stuff, it can't keep that balance. You see, if you are in a good mood, if you're healthy, cheerful and merry, you look young, what does that mean? The organism does not get older. It ages slower, it stands up to the pressure, keeps that dynamic balance.

So, that's one topic, the second one is that all of us, the humanity and our group, and everyone else will have in only several years to face the situation when all the stress factors are multiplied by ten. And all the problems of 2003 which a politic group "Edinstvo" is trying to solve, these are just particular aspects of the global problems that are moving towards us now, towards the whole human civilization.

And, naturally, we will discuss this topic and any actions that we can take with regards to it, in a year, for instance. That's all.

Immune system it's the root of the whole foliage, all these sights, all organs of senses, including upper departments of consciousness. And when in the foliage does not get what it needs, the root begins to rot.

Question:
What do you mean when saying "consciousness"?

Klein:
When I have said "consciousness" right now, I meant intellect and intuition. The thing is that there are a lot of gradations, what's more - european ones. I don't want to meddle in them. I do take into account that there exists memory, without which all of this stuff doesn't work ...

Question:
Memory as a part of consciousness?

Klein:
Of course. Well, you can consider it not as a part of consciousness, like a mechanism, but nevertheless, everything that is related to consciousness - to what is called "day consciousness" - it's subconsciousness, it's intuition, it's memory, it's instincts-reflexes , - all this is consciousness. This is, probably, to speak using different concepts, a part of heavenly soul. So, how can we speak about consciousness, if we don't know about the existance of God. I stress it once again, we don't know that, we can belive in God or not believe in God. And then we get two different concepts of consciousness. So, to discuss it on the medical level from so-called matereal point of view. That means, there are pieces of meat, they do something, and as a result something happens. That's why I don't draw precise borderline of the so-called consciousness, because it is not important. For us that is not important. Neither in our practice, nor in our theory. When Buddah was approached and asked: "And this is bla-bla-bla...?" " Would it help your enlightment? Get out of here!" Or he was silent. Here is the same thing, stop having discussions on the topic of what is consciousness. There is a particular question: what should be done? Like to publish a magazine, here, with AIDS, here to help this man, here - to understand something for yourself... Then you can choose a square and understand everything inside it. That's why, when I'm speaking about consciousness, I don't define precise borderlines, I can't, my scientific honesty doesn't let me draw them, because of the understanding, that everything we have there is a castle build on sand. "Built on sand" I mean that all knowledge regarding this is built on sand.

Question:
Everything that you've just told us- is that a conceptual point of view?

Klein:
It's a conceptual point of view. In this sense, when we say - once I wrote it to the conference, that a hypothesis is this and this, and theory is that and that. So, in the scientific sense - it's a hypothesis, a suggestion, that means it is not proved by any facts or anything. But this is a european scientific tradition, according to which the whole buddhism is an absolutely un-scientific and absolutely random hypothesis and what's more - pure subjectivism, subjective idealism. So, it is really like that, everything that is said there is subjective. So, Buddha says that the right speach is necessary. Where are the proves? And "right" - is a realization of a high degree of subjectivism, a high degree of exactness of subjectivism. Right - wrong. Well, that's pretty nice! A european isn't struck by that, he at once asks: relative to what it is right? Relative to what criteria of right? What is hidden behind your "right"? So, we have to combine that somehow. Globally all the european scientific opposition, this scientific view of the world doesn't lead anywhere but AIDS. And ecological problems.

I say it once again, like a global system, that has conditioners, and kettles, and cars, and tables, and cosy chairs. But we have to pay for everything, as Remark said, double and triple price... Generally, here the situation is also somehow connected. He hangs, if he opens his mouth - he will die, if he keeps it shut - he will not accomplish what he has to. Always between two lines of fire: if you go here - everything will be ruined, if you go there - the same thing. Hertzen was absolutely right, saying "What's to be done?" And this is Zen: what should be done in such a situation when wherever you go - everything will be ruined?

Question:
That means - do nothing ?

Klein:
It can't be applied here. I'm just speaking about the situation that has two outcomes - for example, if you do nothing - everything will be ruined, if you do something - everything will be ruined. And how to jump from flatness into space, to see everything in another way, to do everything in another way, and this dexterity, this dancing upon emptiness, dancing on vortexes of emptiness and finding a solution to unsolvable problems, and combining incompatible things, and with all that - staying alive - that is the heart of Zen, the fullest and most adequate reflection of everything that happens in the world. Here's a man, he's inside of all that "what's to be done?". When a person chops off parts of himself, limits himself to the level of a board, to the level of a functional automaton, to the animal's level, and the like. But as soon as he begins to develop upwards, he comes face to face with all these things, he begins to realise them, touch them, and what is he to do? In this sense Zen is Ch'an, the top-level teaching that is not a teaching. So, Buddha managed it in a cool way, he saw everything and created a teaching that is not a teaching, it's a perfect, unprecedented thing. And Zen is even higher.

Question:
Einstein's "Everything is relative"; when did it appear?

Klein:
There's no Einstein's "Everything is relative". The thing is, any ideas are always being born by a clever, original man, and then as they start spreading from him, they are vulgarised; that means, they begin to be grasped by more and more stupid people, more distant people, that have "heard something" like this, this and this. Here we're talking with you, we've been talking already for a year, and every time it turns out that you haven't understood something properly, something is not ok. And here - there is absolutely no way they would understand it, they are farmers. And that is how it goes. Einstein has his theory of relativity, which has its paradoxes, which still has some unresolved contradictions. And "everything is relative" - we have it on our site as "The main mistake of a zen-follower", I did describe it all there, about the fact that during the last 150 years the influence of the so-called "scientific perception of the world" has lead the destruction of hyerarchies that we had connecting with God, society, with other things, and it went so far that in the middle of the XX-th century they began to kill millions of people in concentration camps and boil soap from their fat. And it was not only in Germany, but in Russia too. It was a kind of movement of the human spirit towards freedom from the ties, and it has aquired such a form, because all these millions of false ties - and imagine the power of all the human race united in this movement - so, all these millions of false ties, mistaken for false ties, which were true, - how shall I say this? - pivot, cable, channel, that helps a person in this world to stay truly a God's creature. They began to destroy everything ... Maybe, I'm not expressing myself clearly enough, but that is the general idea. It was a real tendency, started by the slogan of the French Revolution: "Freedom. Equality. Brotherhood". It was all started for economical reasons: three social classes, why the people, belonging to one class should live all their life in this way, and belonging to another class - that way, possessing priviledges, and there is no way to change from one to the other class? People have "Freedom. Equality. Brotherhood". And then from this comes that all people are equal, then - all the points of view are equal, then - bla-bla-bla, there are no values, bla-bla-bla... and only after Nazi Germany even Camus has realized, the main figure in existentialism, as is also written in Helps, he began to retract, and later appears his view that "we have gone too far, saying that there are no human values... " It is all on the site. In "Freedom of choice", or to be more exact in "Notes about people" and "The main mistake of a zen-follower". In "Notes about people" - there are some extra articles on this topic and in Helps about Camus. It was an explosion, breakthrough, and everything has gone to pieces...

Human race has paid a high price for these attempts to move forward. If there was no Lenin, we would have now been doing what he had been doing, becuase it was the main direction. If there was no Hitler, we would have been doing what he had done. Probably.

Question:
Who do you mean - we?

Klein:
Well, you and me. I mean, they showed - that, that and that. The fact is that they were people like us, of the same age, they had understanding, they wanted to do what was needed, they had conscience, they, well, they didn't want to earn money in such a way, like it's the main thing and main principle of their lives. So, Lenin had a choice - to become a prosperous advocate, imagine - to graduate from the law faculty of the University without attending lectures. Cool guy! But they showed not only that they have walked that path themselves, they have also showed the after-effects of that way, and also the after-effects that appeared many decades after! It became clear that it is no use going there. If the historical experience is correctly analysed, it becomes clear that this sector is filled, that's all. It was empty, now there's something there, the pattern can be seen. And it's becomes clear that there are not only such advantages, but also such and such mistakes, dangers, not-applicabilities, and we should think of something else.

Question:
A question arises, here we are busy doing something, creating something, building something. Is it, like, only for ourselves?

Klein:
Why only for us? If you look at it this way, this is what we are doing for everyone.

Question:
But they don't need this!

Klein:
It is not needed NOW. When I have been doing that alone for ten years, it turns out that it is needed: ZenHelps, The School of Second Logic, and here... Don't mistake doing something for yourself, not trying to make the whole world happier, which is a constructive position, so that on this level of your enlightment - well, it's always a balance "enlightment-unenlightment" - not to fall into the trap of messiahnism. It is a road to death, absolutely. Messiahnism, not mission...

Question:
What's the difference?

Klein:
Messiahnism - is a person's inner complex, the desire to save the world and to do good to other people. It usually ends in two things, two ends, there are two paths. The fisrt one. You are doing, doing, doing, doing, you're doing earnestly but they spit upon you. But you're doing it, your level like of purity is ten times higher, but they don't give a damn. Constantly. And then one day you say to yourself: "Well, f*** you. I'm so strong, so honest, I can kill you with my thumb... I can deceive of you and do things you can not even imagine... And you - ... That's it! Starting from tomorrow - no, from today - I'll do the same things you did to me, but I'll do them 10 times more effectively. F*** off!" And there appears an armed monster. That 's in the first case messiahnism-scenario.

And here is the second one: before I did tell them to f*** off, before this thought even enters my mind, everything is ok. Some people spit on me but some don't. I'm doing, doing, my system is growing, my abilities are growing, that means I hadn't lost my nerve until my system is complete. Here is me with this system that has been created by me. What is the result? The result is Stalin. Here I am, I really, sincerely do want happiness for the people, I have fought for it. And these rats spit on everything, turn everything into dirt, and these bastards spit on my main mission, my idea, my path, and it becomes clear for me that what they are doing is bad for everyboby, I know this, I had been working with that for 15-20 years. And all people that I respect say the same. It's not like I don't care, it's a fight, I should carry on with it, now I'll do that... they are fools, they've just came out from nowhere and have already began doing these things! They only hinder us, they slow down the process. Make away with them! Because the price is high. I begin to repress them, when I've repressed them there appear already unsatisfied not only by this but also with by fact of repression, I repress more... I create a punitive machine, special divisions, the system moves apart from me, and begins to live according to its own rules, it should... And then - concentration camps.

It's the second sad end of messiahnism. In one case the messiah turned to be weak, in the other - strong. What's to be done? Again you hang on a branch holding on with your teeth, with the hands tied together... And they ask you from down there: "What's the heart of Zen?" If you open your mouth - you'll die, if you don't - you won't do what you have to do. Two ways: here you go - everything would be ruined and there you go - everything would be ruined. What's to be done? In this sense - koan. Everything is organised this way, when you understand this on a high level.

Getting back to the topic of "they spit on you". Here I am, trying to build something here. And when he comes drunk and makes some noise here, and then I have to call him - it's a blow for me. I say nothing to Olga for two days, three days. So that this wave does not hit her. Does not hit her even a little bit. Then it goes away and I tell her, that it's so and so. I must be oversensitive, super-sensitive. And at the same time I should be thick-skinned. Again the same situation. And what's to be done? Two contradicting things. If you are only thik-skinned - nothing happens, that's clear.. If you are only sensitive - you'll be swept off in no time.

And here we retun to messiahnism. The lack of messiah complex is the main prerequisite for being able to move forward. Because it makes you terribly weak. It's just a constructive position. Of course, when you do this, whenyou make it your business to do this, you are doing this for everybody and much more so than others do. Plus you have to do it in such a way that people do not notice it. When you give something, if you do it correctly, it should't be so, that the person to whom you give fills uncomfortable, feels like he owes you something. Understand? Either you give or you do not. If you give - do it to the fullest. Keeping in mind that if thoughts like:" Klein, - they write to me - so many people write to you, and here I am with my stupid question ..."appear, then you say: "That's ok, don't worry..." And so on, and so forth. So, it's in fact an analogy to the situation when you say - "Sort of crazy". Or as you say: people don't realise... I mean we emanate this great feeling, and they don't realise that we too have our troubles, or something. If we emanate the feeeling where a person feels that we have problems - that is not the right way to do it. That means, if you give something, you should give in such a way that the receiving person wouldn't get mixed up with anything negative of yours.

Question:
So this is the root of that thing, when the kids grow up and tell you: "Well, I'm leaving"?

Klein:
Yes, absolutely.

Question:
Is it normal?

Klein:
Yes, it is. And you should prepare yourself for that from the very beginning, that children will grow up and tell you:"Well, I'm leaving". Only then, after some years have passed, will they realize this, having gained some experience. The only thing you can give them regarding this is that they, first, would realise it, and second, do that quickly...